Article written by an anti-CC, pro-OC guy, take it with a grain of salt.

http://newsblaze.com/business/legal/no- ... ons_62762/

I disagree strongly. This wasn't just a 2nd Amendment case, it was a 14th Amendment case too based on unequal treatment under the law. Friends and wealthy donors of CA sheriffs could get permits whereas the general public could not.

Now this is headed to SCOTUS for a 4-4 deadlock or no hearing at all.

Does anyone doubt now why we MUST defeat Hillary?

The way to defeat Secretary Clinton is with a reasonable candidate.

There isn't one this election cycle.

His name is Gary Johnson.

I went back and counted. You have dodged this question 11 times across 3 different threads.

Let's try for 12. Is stopping Trump worth losing 2A completely and seeing guns banned in the USA?

Have to agree with Alpine, and sorry root. Gary is not a real solution either.

Are people seeing these court opinions? Do they think they have no meaning or consequence?

Do we WANT to see this forum become a memorial board to the days when we used to have guns? Our rights are literally on the line. Hillary supporters are literally holding a gun to our guns, voting for Hillary is pulling that trigger. Look at this court decision! For at least the next several years, the entire Western United States has no protections for carrying a gun outside your home now! That means there is NOTHING to stop WAGR and WACEASFIRE from running an initiative to ban all forms of public carry, and don't think the extreme-moonbat lib McCleary 6-3 state supreme court will disagree either... they are likely to say that Section 24 of our state Constitution only applies to the home, at least until their federal gun grabber buddies can ban home possession as well.
Some counties in CA that were previously issuing permits after Peruta Round 1 have now stopped issuing all permits and state they will not be renewing the few that got through in the short in-between time. Does everyone understand what this means? Adding HI and CA to the east coast may/no-issue states, 20% of the US population is now functionally foridden from carrying guns outside of their homes. imagine of 1 out of every 5 of you reading this had to give up carrying for your defense and your family's defense. How would that make you feel? Because that is basically what has already happened. Without protections of the federal courts on basic gun ownership and carry rights, how long until initiative spam turns WA into the "West Coast Wall" that WACEASEFIRE and WAGR are hoping for?

I went and searched after Leadcounsel mentioned it, read some threads here on this board about how the Brits sit around reminiscing on their former rights. Maybe it will open your eyes. This is your future with Hillary and Garland.
http://forums.shootinguk.co.uk/

It's too late this cycle.

The time to get all ramped up and militant is past.

That time was the primaries, when you could have worked to nominate a reasonable, electable, respectable candidate. Instead, the Republican party nominated Trump, and forfeited this election, as well as any moral high ground for down-ticket collateral damage.

You are the party of Trump now, and the bill is due.

"You?"
Was Hillary your choice? Are you the party of Hillary?

If not, why was it our job to find someone besides Trump and NOT your job to avoid Hillary?

For the record I worked to get Cruz in but I'd rather roll the dice on Trump than see Hillary ban all guns.

Also, how is barely holding onto our gun rights "militant?" Could you explain that please?

For the 13th time now, do you think stopping Trump is worth functionally erasing the 2nd Amendment and banning gun ownership in America?
I am not trying to insult you, I am genuinely curious. I'm sure there are some people here for whom 2A is not even close to a top issue or maybe they wouldn't mind losing guns at all. Just interested in hearing that viewpoint honestly expressed if you happen to hold it. Can you answer the question please?

"you" just defined yourself pal....in this fight you are either with us or against us, there is NO middle ground here, no fence sitting, no watching from the sidelines....

I find myself agreeing here with Alpine. Johnson will suck votes from both Trump and Hillary, aka the Perot effect. 24 years ago Perot tossed his name in the ring promising to be the alternative candidate against a doofball draft dodger and a WWII veteran that led this country and it's coalition to its first military victory since the Demorats tucked their balls up and cut military funding and ran. We got Billery in the White House, and we're treated to the AWB on top of NAFTA and Billy's degenerate morals and sordid use of the Oval Office.

This mentality is what sways new or fence line voters AWAY from our side. Us or them, black or white, do as I say or get called names and bashed on a forum. Frankly it's tiring and sickening to continue to hear. We are a country with over 300 million people. There is MUCH more than just B&W. To A LOT of people (hence, the majority of the voting population), this isn't just a B&W issue, it it was then Trump would be smashing the polls.

There are plenty of voices on this forum that are afraid to present a differing opinion than the few main Trumpeters here, because they see what happens if they try and have a conversation along a different line. Harassment, name calling, baiting tactics. Is that what we want this place to be? Is that what this place has become? I sure hope not.

Is it possible to love guns and hate Trump? Apparently so. Is it possible to love guns and love Hillary, Apparently so. Does anybody think that you are going to honestly sway either of those examples to a different position on an internet forum? The answer is no.

And as far as JammerSix goes. Since his joining here, he has been called Troll, fake, a secret mod account, Hitlery supporter, 0Bama lover, as well as plenty of other nasty names. But you know what? A small handful of us got the chance to meet J6 at the WSP memorial, where he, while OC'ing a 1911, got down and dirty with the rest of us for hours beautifying the area. He's just like you and I. He's a human, breathes, has a family, has a life, has opinions and convictions. Try having a civil or PM conversation with the man and I think he may surprise you, if you can see past the line in the sand you have all drawn.

The problem is that voting is a binary choice. Viewpoints may be shades of grey but when the rubber meets the road, you either vote for the candidate who has repeatedly gone on record as saying she wants to eliminate firearm ownership in the US. Or you vote for the candidate who has a shot of being more 2A friendly.

This is where the line in the sand and "you're either with us or against us" mentality comes in.

Also, as far as J6 goes, IMO he's deserved all the crap he's gotten on here. On forums, he's been nothing but snarky and combative.

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May I ask why not?

Here is my hugest issue with Trump. Of all the people he could have picked as a running mate, he picked Pence. Sure Weld is not an IDEAL VP under Johnson. He at least isnt a Pence.

Johnson is very ON RECORD as pro 2A. Would appoint conservative judges. Would pull us out of Foreign wars. Not to mention we would keep our ProGuns congress critters. You know those guys slipping in the polls because of proximity to Trump?

I really have yet to see Trump as anything other than a Hillary plant, to guarantee her victory in the election.



That argument does not work for people like me however. He is not taking my vote from either candidate. I have addressed this with others, but to "steal" a vote you had to have been willing to vote for either Trump or Hillary. Something I just will not do. FPTP voting gets mired down to two party elections, not because of the process but because of people not actually voting for the candidate they believe in, and they then stick to the party line. "Because the other guy can't win!"



There is plenty of middle ground. People just enjoy locking people into the us/them fight. It is easier to see black and white than it is shades of grey.

Chicken or the egg, my friend...who was snarky and combative first?

Based on the track record of many of our members I have some strong suspicions....

We don't give a shit about other forums. There are plenty of awesome members here who are refugees from other forums. Members who you have dealt with, who are awesome members of this community.

How he came into the forum was rough, no doubt. But apparently, along the way, he decided to be a part of this community. If you can see past it or not is not a concern of ours. But being snarky to a member, regardless of past history or your personal feelings towards doesn't give anybody carte blanche to bypass the CoC.