Strange - NICS says PROCEED but pretty sure felony exists...

[klc9761]

Hi! New to the site (obviously). Got a question I've not seen before and not sure where in the forum it should live. Just got a "proceed" from a FFL for my first pistol. Pretty sure I have a felony age 18 from 1980 in Colorado and said so on my app (even requested the court docs while waiting for the NICS response). Even if I have a 'proceed' can the authorities confiscate the firearm at a later date? Can I be charged? I've been honest with the FFL and was honest on the NICS form. Thanks!

[usrifle]

Was the charge reduced? Did you get convicted? Interesting....

[RocketScott]

I'd rather be sure before taking possession. You don't want another charge thrown at you.


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[PMB]

Agree with Scott.

I am under the impression that a "Yes" on any of those boxes is automatically disqualifying, except for the one box that must be "Yes" (straw purchase Q.)
I guess that it's time to break out the learning hat.

[Guntrader]

In the 80's, there was a requirement that all local agencies and courts submit conviction data to their state, and they would forward to FBI for submission into their computer system. They had three years to comply.
"Who's going to pay for it?
"Your agency does.
A lot of stuff back in that period was lost for good in the transition from paper to digital because nobody wanted to pay for it.

I've worked on a lot of cases where all that stuff is gone.
Usually where no fingerprints were submitted to FBI.
Do a check on yourself.


If it's not on there, it doesn't exist. Edit: Well, unless you tell them it did occur. They may add it then by your own admission.
https://www.fbi.gov/services/records-ma ... bi-records

Last edited by Guntrader on Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[leadcounsel]

Edited to add: Here's a good info paper on it, and the 1968 GCA that prohibits felons from possession of firearms and ammo. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/doc ... f/download

Question 11c asks if you've ever been convicted of a felony. What did you write?

"Yes" would to my knowledge be an automatic disqualification, unless you had it expunged.
"No" would be an illegal lie and another felony.

Assuming no expungement or similar and your felony still stands:

I'm not sure, and have never looked into whether it's illegal to try to buy a gun as long as the 4473 is answered truthfully. At minimum if the answers were truthful and you were a prohibited person, then there should be a denial. A proceed would probably be a clerical error. But you still know you have a felony, and are breaking the law taking possession.

Kinda seems like attempting to buy a gun, even while being truthful on the 4473, *might* be construed as an attempted crime. I know these are rarely or maybe almost never or even never prosecuted... but I guess a case maybe could be made about it. I mean, if you are truthful on the 4473 and get a proceed to access something you legally cannot even possess... that's sort of an attempted crime.

But if you take possession of a firearm, or ammo, or body armor (I believe) as a felon, you've instantly broken the law (very serious laws, at that). So even if you pass the check, likely due to a clerical error, if you take the gun you probably break the law. Probably a clerical error given that it was ~27 years ago, and out of state, and prior to computerized records.

Further, the FFL would almost certainly be breaking the law if he knowingly gave a felon a gun. If I were an FFL I'd be very reluctant to do that even with a proceed.

If you want a real legal assessment, you're probably going to need to retain counsel and maybe have them try to get it expunged.

[klc9761]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I was honest on my application. Even talked to the folks at the FFL about everything - they encouraged me to apply. To make a long story just a little longer, there is a strange twist to my case. I ran a check on myself through the Colorado State Patrol and clear as day there is an arrest for burglary - but, no disposition or resolution. Digging further, I found copies of all my court documents, and started remembering things (this all happened 37 years ago). I plead guilty to auto theft (in CO a class 4 felony out of 5), was sentenced to 4 years probation, which 2 months later was completely discharged satisfactorily so I could join the USMC. While in the Corps I had a Top Secret clearance. After the Corps I did 2 international adoptions which required FBI checks. Now I'm a school teacher which also required background checks. So I don't know. Think I'll apply for a CPL and see what happens.

[Sinus211]

Think I'll apply for a CPL and see what happens.

Nothing personal but I think you're digging your own grave and reaching for a bigger shovel.

[Selador]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I was honest on my application. Even talked to the folks at the FFL about everything - they encouraged me to apply. To make a long story just a little longer, there is a strange twist to my case. I ran a check on myself through the Colorado State Patrol and clear as day there is an arrest for burglary - but, no disposition or resolution. Digging further, I found copies of all my court documents, and started remembering things (this all happened 37 years ago). I plead guilty to auto theft (in CO a class 4 felony out of 5), was sentenced to 4 years probation, which 2 months later was completely discharged satisfactorily so I could join the USMC. While in the Corps I had a Top Secret clearance. After the Corps I did 2 international adoptions which required FBI checks. Now I'm a school teacher which also required background checks. So I don't know. Think I'll apply for a CPL and see what happens.

Wanna bet it was expunged, then?

[leadcounsel]

Sounds to me like it was a deferred prosecution, or perhaps some form of conditional prosecution or something where you complied with some terms to the satisfaction of the court so the charges were dismissed or dropped.

Given your USMC service and clearance, I assume you were truthful there as well, that suggests this is the case.

If I were you though, before taking possession of a firearm or risking any other applications, I would hire counsel or contact your prior attorney from Colorado and see what records can be recovered.

I'm a licensed attorney in WA and CO, so PM me if you'd like to discuss the matter in more detail.

[chevytruckman]

Sounds to me like it was a deferred prosecution, or perhaps some form of conditional prosecution or something where you complied with some terms to the satisfaction of the court so the charges were dismissed or dropped.

Given your USMC service and clearance, I assume you were truthful there as well, that suggests this is the case.

If I were you though, before taking possession of a firearm or risking any other applications, I would hire counsel or contact your prior attorney from Colorado and see what records can be recovered.

I'm a licensed attorney in WA and CO, so PM me if you'd like to discuss the matter in more detail.

If a felony stood, I do believe that he could not be eligible to join military. Correct? I'm
Not sure in nearly 15 years in that was a convicted felon with a felony still in record...

So I'm guessing reduced fit compliance or explunged.


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[ANZAC]

If you PM me your name, DOB and address, I could sure have the sheriff's office look into it for you, and get you a final answer.
(I'll be with the sheriff tomorrow morning...)





Seriously, when you say you plead guilty to it, and it "was a felony", does the paperwork say it was a felony or just that it was auto theft?

In most states auto theft can be either a misdemeanor OR a felony, depending on the situation, vehicle etc.

[usrifle]

If you PM me your name, DOB and address, I could sure have the sheriff's office look into it for you, and get you a final answer.
(I'll be with the sheriff tomorrow morning...)





Seriously, when you say you plead guilty to it, and it "was a felony", does the paperwork say it was a felony or just that it was auto theft?

In most states auto theft can be either a misdemeanor OR a felony, depending on the situation, vehicle etc.

Don't do it klc9761.

PM Leadcounsel, he will help you.

[Massivedesign]

Anzac was actually onto something. Just because you have a felony doesn't mean you are a bad felon. I'd go into your local PD and ask them to run you. Tell them your situation and let them run you.

Your original question was can they come back later and take the gun? Yes they can. They can also charge you with possession of a firearm as well. NICS messes up, it happens. Go get a check by your local PD and see if there is anything you can print out. It won't indemnify you, but if could make the difference between charges being filed or not if shit goes sideways.

We need as many LAW abiding gun owners as we can. If you are legally allowed to own a gun, and responsible enough to own one, then you should do so. If you are not, then please do not.

[ANZAC]

If you're interested in visiting the local PD for Fall City, KCSO Precinct 2 is in Sammamish City Hall.

I can probably get an email address of the person who handles this at headquarters if you are interested.
Of course I can't promise they won't arrest you but you're trying to do the right thing so... who knows.